Ep192 Meds For Behavior Issues

[00:00:00] Episode 192, we are gonna talk about the controversy about using meds for animals who have difficulty with grooming. There are lots of strong feelings about this. I think that, , many groomers refuse to work with animals that are medicated. And then there are other people who really want the animals to be medicated.

[00:00:18] So we're gonna talk about where some of this bias comes from. This is not veterinary advice. I am not a veterinarian and we will not list specific medications. We're just gonna talk about how many groomers feel about medications, and we'll give a little bit of a history lesson, see where that was coming from.

[00:00:36] This is the Creating Great Grooming Dog Show. I'm Chrissy Neumyer Smith. I'm a master groomer behavior specialist, a certified professional groomer, , a certified behavior consultant for canines. , an instructor at Whole Pet Grooming Academy, and I am the owner of Happy Critters in Nashua, New Hampshire.

[00:00:51] And this, my friends and colleagues, is the show where we talk about teaching dogs to be calm, comfortable, and cooperative for grooming and for other types of care. So this week I wanna talk about medications, and we're gonna start off with a little bit of a history lesson, and let me tell you why there was a time when I first started working with dogs in the mid eighties, where if a dog was having difficulty being groomed, and I say having difficulty, not being difficult for grooming, they aren't giving us a hard time. They're having a hard time. So I do say having difficulty, but we used to give medication to make it more difficult for them to fight back.

[00:01:30] Now that is, , the old school version where the dog is really sedated in such a way that they can't effectively fight back. And I know as a groomer way back when. That did not go well. A lot of these animals were significantly drunk. Is that what we can compare it to? They acted like they were drunk.

[00:01:51] They were woozy, they were falling all over the place. They were still having difficulty with grooming. They were, there was a lot of drooling. They were very difficult to handle and manage 'cause they were still upset. They were still often trying to be aggressive toward us. There was a lot of. Scary stuff with trying to monitor them, even if they still needed to wear a muzzle, but they're drooling and they were nervous and all of these other things were happening.

[00:02:14] That's the way we did it in the eighties. That's the way, maybe we did it a little bit in the nineties, but by the nineties that had already started to change. But here's where we need to think about what's going on. The dog grooming industry . Dog training, a lot of these industries are often apprenticeship based.

[00:02:32] So we are learning from someone who learned from someone who learned from someone, and we're passing down knowledge that way. Not necessarily requiring things like continuing ed and staying up to date. So if you learn from someone who learned from someone you know, you might be still really heavily influenced by things that we did in the eighties and nineties.

[00:02:52] Like the last century. It's 2024 as I record this right now, it is January 28th, 2024, and we have to think about the ways that things have changed. So I know a lot of groomers will say, I won't groom dogs who are medicated, but that's coming from the way it was done in the eighties and maybe into the nineties.

[00:03:17] Now I, I think we will find that there's occasionally someone who, you know, gives their dog something to make 'em just loopy. Tech talk loopy. Like I said, I'm not a veterinarian and I'm not gonna pretend to be a veterinarian, and we're not gonna talk about specific meds, but sometimes someone will give the dog something.

[00:03:34] 'cause their perception is if he can't hurt you, we can get the job done. But as you know. Listening to this show I'm gonna talk about, we need to help these animals feel calm, comfortable, and cooperative and comfortable is a big portion of the three C's. Comfortable with this. It's not about getting the job done.

[00:03:54] There are times where we have to get the job done and we call those medical emergencies. I know it stinks and I'm gonna say that, but this dog's haircut not a medical emergency. That matted armpit, not a medical emergency. This is not the kind of stuff that we absolutely have to get done in this exact moment.

[00:04:17] Anything like that we can actually work on. And I think it's important for us to think about that dog's comfort and to take some time to backtrack, backtrack, and say, is this dog comfortable with this? Because the old school version wasn't thinking about helping them be comfortable. It was thinking about the most important thing in the world is to get this part done Now.

[00:04:40] If you are not a dog groomer, you might not realize that matting causes skin problems, it causes discomfort. There is a really, really big drive to get these mats and tangles off of dogs, and it is important. It's really important. We want them to be comfortable however. Here I am saying it's not important today.

[00:05:02] And what if we can help them have less anxiety about it, help them be less scared and work on it a little bit nibble by nibble over the course of maybe a week I. It's gonna cost your owners more. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't, don't do behavior cases for free. Nobody's asking you to roll out the red carpet and say, you know, I'm gonna do this as charity work.

[00:05:25] Maybe you will. And that's okay. But this is something that we really have to put as a priority. These animals deserve to be comfortable with this, and it's not their fault. They're matted. Even if they don't let mummy brush, I know nobody wants to hear that. But even if they don't let their owner brush, it's not the dog's fault that they're matted.

[00:05:45] It's not the dog's fault that their nails are super long and it does not need to be corrected today. There are two times I can think of during grooming, during a grooming session where we might have to continue, , where we might have to say, oh. Handler error. I push this dog further than I can handle.

[00:06:05] And now handler error. I really need to push through this. And those two times that I can think of when we might have to push through anyway . If a dog is covered in shampoo, we need to get the shampoo off. , that is one. And the other one is if the dog has injured themselves.

[00:06:22] And we need to provide first aid. Those are the two times matted armpit? Nope. , poopy bum. Send them to the vet. I mean, you know that it's totally encrusted over, you know, there's probably a sore under there. Send them to the vet. Now the vet can decide how they want to proceed. And you know what? The veterinary medicine, , they're going to come up with some sort of a, medication that will work well for them.

[00:06:48] Okay, great. Send them to the vet for things like that. Frankly, I see a lot of groomers doing things that are veterinary. , I'd really like to see that stop. So let's just pause here for a second. If your dog has a nail that's growing into the pad of its foot, that's not, I need a nail trim. That's, I need a veterinarian that's an open sore underneath the pad of their foot.

[00:07:11] Groomers should not be trimming those. Even if it's going to cause relief for that pup in that moment, not our job. So there are some times where we can avoid medical emergencies by simply not taking medical cases. I know I said it, I'm sorry. I was gonna say things like that a lot this time. , especially where we're talking about medications.

[00:07:33] I don't want these animals to be afraid of what's going on. So the old school version of we're is gonna get 'em so drugged up. That they probably won't even remember anyway. They're flailing around, they're trying to bite at us. That's really scary for a groomer to work with, and I think many of us as groomers have learned from someone who said, do not work on animals who are medicated.

[00:07:58] It is really scary. They've had some terrible things happen. You know, a dog that flung itself off the table or bit anyway, or passed out. I mean, lots of scary things were happening when we did it that way. In the eighties and nineties, guys, it's 2024. That's not what modern medicine is giving us as a solution a anymore.

[00:08:19] So if we were taught by someone who was taught by someone, you might have just on blind faith took it as, yep. I don't wanna medicate. I don't want to groom medicated dogs. Alright. I'm also going to say totally up to the groomer if they wanna work with a dog that has medication on board. But. That old school version is not what we're doing.

[00:08:41] You might still find a veterinarian or two out there who are gonna try it. And if a dog comes in and they're still really stressed out, but they're on medication well, is that calm, comfortable, and cooperative? No, it is not. Is that conducive to teaching a dog to be calm, comfortable, and cooperative? Nope.

[00:08:59] So it's okay for you to refuse services and say, this is not going to work. This isn't gonna work for us for safety reasons, because if your dog is still finding this very, very stressful, then that's not gonna be safe. So circling back to safety, because behavior problems are when dogs get hurt. People get hurt, equipment gets broken, and owners get upset.

[00:09:24] And the owner will say, if something happens to their dog, the owner is going to say, the groomer should have known better. The professional should have known better. So if a dog is medicated and you look and say, this is not decreasing, this animal's , difficulty level, right? This, this animal is still significantly scared, well then we can say this medication choice.

[00:09:48] It does not seem to be helping this dog today. And we can talk to the veterinarian. We can have the owners talk to the veterinarian, but to just blanket say, Nope, meds are not a good choice, I think is based on this history this stuff we did in the eighties and nineties, and some of you guys have never seen that.

[00:10:09] , those of us who were grooming dogs in the eighties and nineties, it's, it's really scary. It's really scary, and it leaves a lasting impression of like, Mm-Hmm, no, not my job. Nope. Send them to the vet for that, which would be fine. But again, it's not the way things are being done today. So in the next part, we're gonna talk about the more modern approach to medicating for behavior issues.

[00:10:32] If you are enjoying the show, please remember to tell a friend, tell a vet, tell a groomer, tell an owner. , we have a lot of animals out there that we need to help, so spread the word. So let's talk about what the modern approach is. And I say the modern approach as of 2024. As a non-medical professional.

[00:10:51] I used to be a vet tech, but that was back in about, I think the last time I was a vet tech was in 2000. So yeah, it's been over 20 years. I want you to think about the approach right now is the medications that they're using for cooperative care. Right for teaching animals to be calm, comfortable, and cooperative for grooming and for vet visits and for any other types of care.

[00:11:13] The medications they're choosing are to decrease anxiety. I. They're literally to help an animal feel more comfortable and to handle stressors differently. It is not your old school. Let's just get him really drunk so he's disoriented and can't bite fast. Okay. , that's. On the way of the dodo, okay?

[00:11:33] That is old school, and that is not what is usually happening anymore. In fact, many of the dogs that I see have been on medications for anxiety or for behavior issues, or just for being a trembling wreck. tech talk a trembling wreck. Many of these dogs have been on medications and are on daily medication for a long time.

[00:11:55] So if you think about medications being part of helping an animal feel better, feel safer, not become. Agitated, not become stressed, then it makes more sense why it's a, it's a choice that's available to us. Now, as a groomer, you may still say, I am not comfortable with that, and that is up to you. That is fine.

[00:12:19] That's fine. I want you to though think. Is that animal going to experience this differently and leave the door open to, if this dog is not feeling better about this, if this isn't helping, then we need to reassess. Now that does not mean, telling an owner it didn't work. It means really sitting down and saying, okay, you gave this dosage.

[00:12:43] Let's talk to your vet because this is what I observed. Sometimes it's because the timing was off. One of the questions we should be asking our veterinarian, is, or having our owners ask the veterinarian is how long after a dose would have its optimal effect, if we give it and then we start work in 15 minutes, has that affected that pet today or is that dosage going to affect them hours from now?

[00:13:13] , some of these medications are things that they're on all the time, so therefore, how long does it take to get a therapeutic dose? Is it something that actually works with one dose or is this something that they need to be on for a long time to work? These are questions that are important questions.

[00:13:29] There is a wide variety of medication out there. And to say, I won't groom dogs that are medicated. I want you to think about the owner's point of view that they've gone to the vet and the vet has said, all right, well based on the problems you're having at home, or whatever. Probably problems at home.

[00:13:48] Let's go ahead and start this course of medication. If the owners feel like, but that's just meds that he's on, they might not even remember to tell you. , I don't want you to end up in a situation where you don't know if a dog is on medication. 'cause the owners are like, oh, well we don't give it to 'em for nail trims.

[00:14:04] We give it to him every day. We really need to be really specific about this. So a lot of medications are things that the, these dogs are on every day, and there are lots and lots of choices out there. So if it's something new that they're like, let's go ahead and just try something, a medication that will help this pet feel more comfortable during a grooming session, then we also have to say, okay, and we are not planning a full grooming.

[00:14:31] We're gonna plan on seeing if it's working. Okay. Don't get hustled into, well, he's medicated, so I have to get this whole trim done. You gotta get everything done. You do not. You do not. We do not sell haircuts. We sell hair cutting services for pets who are well prepared for our services. If a pet is having a difficulty, and I'm saying pet in this case because I know I, I'm very dog centric, but this is for any animal.

[00:14:59] , if they are having difficulty, then we're not gonna just keep doing the trim. Even if mommy and daddy gave medication, I know some people hate it when we talk about dog owners as mommy and daddy, but sometimes that's what the owners need to hear. Even if the owners have given medication, we can backtrack and say this particular dosage or this particular medication or this particular timing, , might need to be tweaked because we did not see decreased anxiety.

[00:15:27] I. Fear, anxiety and stress is something that the Fear-free program talks about. It's sort of the other side of the coin from calm, comfort, and cooperative. So if we're seeing signs of fear, if the dog is still having difficulty, we as the professional, who is going to be responsible If that animal gets hurt, have to say, okay, I don't think this is working.

[00:15:50] And we can reassess. Sometimes if we tell an owner it didn't work, they're like, oh, we tried meds. Right. It's like when an owner tells a groomer, we tried brushing once. It just never works. What are you using? When are you brushing? Like what do you mean brushing doesn't work? We do it every day. Brushing works.

[00:16:09] So your veterinarian or your owner's veterinarian is probably like, medications do work. Maybe we didn't find the right one. There are so many choices. This is what's really important. The modern approach is to actually help these animals cope with stressful situations differently and maybe not become stressed.

[00:16:29] How cool is that? Some of these animals are on this often, and I, think we can venture to guess at why, but we have a lot of animals coming from puppy mills, right? I mean, if you have stressed dogs, breeding to stressed, dogs, breeding, to stressed dogs who are not necessarily, great ambassadors for their breed anyway,

[00:16:50] of course, we're seeing a lot more dogs on medication and that's one of the theories is that puppy mill dogs creating other puppies with lots of problems. So to just say I'm not comfortable with medication, I think is, , shortsighted.

[00:17:06] You know, the idea of a medication that actually helps a pet feel safer. And not get stressed can be really, really helpful. So this is something I want you to, as an owner, think about talking to your vet or talking to your groomer and finding a, how they feel about it. As a groomer, I want you to talk to your vet.

[00:17:27] Really get into discussions about what are the modern approaches and what, what might I feel comfortable doing or not comfortable, and that's okay. But to know that the modern approach is not to make them so drugged that they just can't. Forcefully bite you. , which is part of the, like I said, the history and the mythos is because many of us saw dogs who were really, really drunk.

[00:17:50] It was really scary to try to work on them. They're falling all over the place. They're still able to bite you. So now you're muzzling a dog who's drooling and panting and their eyes are droopy and they're still having a tough time. That is not what we are doing in 2024. So if your mentor. If the person who taught you how to groom was taught by somebody else who taught you how to groom in like the eighties and nineties and passed on this idea that medications aren't safe, this is , the old version that they're looking at.

[00:18:22] Modern medications are quite safe and the process is different than it used to be. So let's expand our horizons, , let's make some really good educated decisions through talking to the vet, talking to our owners, finding out why a pet might be on medication, and also, I'm gonna add it in here.

[00:18:42] The medications are to try to help an animal cope better. They do not replace training. Nope, sorry. You will still need to do some training. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that might not be with the groomer. That might start off with a dog trainer that might start off someplace else. Work a lot at home, work with the dog trainer, and then bring whatever you've worked on back to the groomer.

[00:19:06] Medications are not gonna get rid of a problem. So that's also an old school thought, like, oh, we don't have time to work on this. Isn't there a pill or something we can give him? Do not allow that. No, we're working toward teaching your dog to be comfortable with it or. I'm not your groomer. That's okay to say.

[00:19:24] , there's a way to work on this, and medication could be part of that for a nice, healthy approach, a holistic approach to what this dog needs for the future of their grooming. In the end, we want that dog to feel more and more comfortable each time they're around us. And so for us to think, if I help this pet feel comfortable with this today, and if medication can also help facilitate that and training and owner education and working on all those things together, then medication might be a really good part of that whole process.

[00:20:02] So again, stay open-minded, talk to your vet about it. That's where you should be getting your information. Talk to your veterinarian. Say, I am a professional groomer, or a professional trainer, or whatever. , and I'm wondering if some of the animals that I work with who have difficulty with grooming, like what kind of medications are, are likely being used, what kind of things are safe , what can I expect from those?

[00:20:28] So please go forth. Spread that word, that we're not just making them drunk and ineffective at hurting us. That the modern approach is to try to help these animals feel more comfortable, spread the word, and also talk to your vet. Please talk to your veterinarian. Find out what is really available today.

[00:20:48] If you enjoy the show, please remember to subscribe or follow wherever you're looking at this show. The show is available on YouTube. The show is available any place that you listen to podcasts, or you can go to creating great grooming dogs.com, which has the episodes, the videos, the transcripts, and

[00:21:06] some blog posts. So again, I'm Chrissy Neumyer Smith and I teach the Master Groomer Behavior Specialist Diploma Program at Whole pet. That's whole pet nh.com. Have a great week.